Ignorance in a very small portion of the South: Obama-Osama brothers?

Hope this wasn't diaried already but...

I'm vacationing with my wife in Flat Rock, NC. We were just watching the 5 pm newscast out of Anderson, SC (WYFF-TV) when this story came on:

JONESVILLE, S.C. -- The sign in front of a small church in a small town is causing a big controversy in Jonesville, S.C.

Pastor Roger Byrd said that he just wanted to get people thinking. So last Thursday, he put a new message on the sign at the Jonesville Church of God.

It reads: "Obama, Osama, hmm, are they brothers?"

Byrd said that the message wasn't meant to be racial or political.

"It's simply to cause people to realize and to see what possibly could happen if we were to get someone in there that does not believe in Jesus Christ," he said.

When asked if he believes that Barack Obama is Muslim, Byrd said, "I don't know. See it asks a question: Are they brothers? In other words, is he Muslim ? I don't know. He says he's not. I hope he's not. But I don't know. And it's just something to try to stir people's minds. It was never intended to hurt feelings or to offend anybody."

Well, it would be pretty easy to find out if you would READ A FUCKIN' NEWSPAPER! (Or at least use the Internet.)

[rest of diary eaten by computer - I'll try to reconstruct]

It's things like this that make me despair of ever getting anything done in this country.

BTW, there are no African-American members in this church. The congregation voted unaninmously to keep the sign up.

•  This deserves about as much honest consideration

  as whether or not women's brains are, or aren't, the size of squirrel's as Borat claims.

  by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:38:12 PM PDT

  •  Now that you mention it,

    Borat had a stadium full of people blessing GWB and damning Iraq down to the last man, woman, and child.... he didn't start losing them until he got to the "drink the blood of their children" part.

    In other words, the less attractive aspects of American culture, as sought out and immortalized by Sasha Baron Cohen, are alive and well at this church.  

    by lgmcp on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:41:20 PM PDT

    •  No bout they're out there, but we still have to

      hope that the local yokels aren't he majority of this country. Otherwise, what does that make us? The swing-boys and girls in 1920's Berlin?

      by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:47:09 PM PDT

  •  No. Ignore at your peril.

    I had an identical conversation with my stepmother.

    "I'm afraid he's a Muslim."
    "No. He's a Christian. Same church for 20 years."
    "Ya. I know. But I'm still afraid he's a Muslim."

    Personally, I think this is a disguise for under the surface racism, and that the Muslim argument is an excuse for not voting for a black guy.

    by Travis Stark on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:11:19 PM PDT

    •  I believe the number of hardcore racist in

      America =  the number of people who believe Barack Obama is a muslim, since the thought behind it basically is that blacks are somehow racially muslim.

      But, it's not something that's a useful allocation of resources. People who believe Barrack is a muslim (and I'm not targetting your mother explictly) probably couldn't be convinced to vote for Obama by Jesus Christ himself, and would rather burn in hellfire enternally than accept a direct command from the son of god himself to vote for him.

      People who think he's anti-isreal, or a socialist, or weak on national defense, or any convievable issue...these people have a good chance of being persuaded. Obama is black and therfore a muslim people....not so much.

      by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:16:29 PM PDT

      •  EVERY LAST Republican...

        ...in the south is a hardcore racist -- OTHERWiSE THEY WOULDN'T BE
        a Republican.  That is why all of Obama's crossover support is coming
        from the West or places where race is not salient locally.  Wherever race
        is relevant, we are the pro-black party and THEY are the pro-white party,
        and REGARDLESS of how many black friends they may claim to have,
        white people who vote in Dixie KNOW this.

        by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:30:57 PM PDT

        •  I wouldn't put it that way

          Although I will say you'e being disengenous or cowardly if you refuse to acknoledge the racial aspects of the two parties.

          (After all, as a black man, most of my white friends are Democrats. And I can't help but suspect part of that is because the white who'd even bother to talk to me are more likely to be democrats than republicans.)

          But I do have a few white republicans friends who a racists, maybe one or two who are from the south, so I wouldn't frame it as exclussively.

          by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:39:37 PM PDT

          •  I'm such a bad typer, plus bad computer

            But what I meant to say was I have a few white republican friends who aren't racists, just conservative...and I'll elaborate by adding libertarians seems to be the Republicans of a less 'blood and soil keeping negroes / hispanics in their place' type view.

            by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:44:19 PM PDT

    •  Of course it's racism.

      you don't hear people asking if John McCain is a muslim, or anyone else for that matter.  It's only Obama that they suspect is a muslim.  It's only Obama that they think should be wearing a flag pin 24/7.  It's only Obama who gets criticized because of his pastor (even though Hillary is connected with The Fellowship and McCain kowtows to Parley and Hagee).  

      The racists are out there and they will use things like this "brother" comment as their dogwhistles to each other.   But I believe if America is going to redeem itself in the eyes of the world, Barack Obama will be our next president and it will be the beginning of a whole new progressive era in America.

      ... or we're fucked.

      by Mad Kossack on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:13:52 PM PDT

•  This has nothing to do with the South.

  Last I checked, the loudest voices on the whole Obama/Osama "gaffes" and conflation have been coming from a lot of directions and regions.

  I thought we as a community had gotten over our "F*ck the F*cking Southern F*cktards" phase.

  by pat208 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:39:51 PM PDT

  •  that may be true

    but i'm in the south right now and it is a church in SC, so...my apologies to you, however.

    by TheGreatLeapForward on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:41:06 PM PDT

    •  So please put away the broad brush.

      Or extend your vacation to visit a few other regions, find their local morons, and add them to your list.

      by pat208 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:42:37 PM PDT

      •  Get over yourself

        there are morons everywhere, but there is a special culture of it in the South.  I'm Southern too, and I really tire of my "brethren" trying to pretend there's no difference between the South and anywhere else.  There is, but people from elsewhere should realize there are still plenty of intelligent, aware, and progressive people even in the worst areas.

        by bythesea on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:46:59 PM PDT

        •  Good point.

          As an African-American from the South, (not that we're ever allowed to consider ourselves Southernors, mind you) I know that there's bigotry everywhere. Still, the South has its own special brand. And the North, and Midwest have their own brands as well.

          And I bet you, anyone, no matter what their background and whatever type of discrimination they might be subjected to, from white straight protestant men to arab gays, can tell you that while discrimination is not confined to one region, different regions manifest it diffrently.

          And the south has it's own, rather infamous brand, of bigotry that even the most racist 'working class Bostonians' haven't been able to emmulate.

          Case in point Mississippi. Despite the MSM orgiastic frenzy to prentend it represent 'Mainstreme America' or the racial aspects of this race, I'm sure...when the counting is done, it will have proved to have been the most racially polarized primary this year.

          by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:54:07 PM PDT

      •  Nobody is putting away the broad brush

        The statistics speak for themselves.
        White people in the south are MUCH more prone than
        white people in other regions to be stupid enough to vote Republican,
        for all kinds of ignorant bigoted reasons.  That goes just as well for
        affluent white southerners as it does for poor ones, although in the
        case of the affluent ones, it is less stupid: they are PROUD to be protecting
        their privilege.  As for the poor ones, well, white poverty is simply much
        more COMMON in southern states than it is in Maine or Montana.
        Well, maybe not Maine so much, but that is an outlier.
        Oddly, (I don't know about adults), poverty among white children
        is highest NEITHER North nor South but in that swath of border
        states where Hillary won so handily:  WV, KY,  TN, AR, OK.
        All of these places were slaveholding in 1861, even though only AR and TN
        actually joined the confederacy.  After that we have MS and LA.
        Of the top 9 states for white child poverty, the only two that are not in the
        south are Maine and Indiana.  But Maine went overwhelmingly for Obama,
        while the most poor-white states went overwhelmingly for  Hillary
        and went Republican in 2000 and 2004.  MS and LA went for Obama
        because THERE, the white people are oppressing black people so much
        harder that they're actually doing better, and they're registered Republican,
        so they couldn't vote in our primary.

        Seriously, though, if Hillary's primary success in the states with the
        highest levels of white child-poverty would translate into getting those
        people to actually vote Democratic in November, maybe she IS more
        electable.  But it's not going to happen: white people in those places
        REALLY ARE STUPIDER than white people in other places.

        Obama is going to do better in MS than anybody has in a long time,
        but carry it?   I'll believe it when I see it.

        by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:26:49 PM PDT

        •  you do realize

          that significant numbers of those ignorant people that vote republican in the south weren't born in the south don't you?

          by jfromga on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:10:40 PM PDT

    •  Your Title "change" doesn't change

      the fact that you are trying to portray ignorance as a "southern" problem.

      There are stupid-uninformed people everywhere.

      Obama isn't treating the south like it's stupid & I hope more of his supporters will catch a clue & start acting the same way!

      by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:51:31 PM PDT

      •  does it say

        "all southern people are ignorant"? no, it does not. so let's leave it at that, yes?

        by TheGreatLeapForward on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:53:01 PM PDT

        •  It is a Bullshit Stereotype

          that you are trying to perpetuate with your diary.

          by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:56:55 PM PDT

          •  IT IS *NOT*

            a bullshit stereotype.
            White southerners are at least 2-1 Republican in most places, and
            as poor as most southern states are, that cannot happen without a
            lot of poor white people voting Republican because they believe
            bigoted stupid shit.  At HIGHER percentages  than in OTHER places.

            by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:28:20 PM PDT

          •  Ever lived there?

            It's not bullshit. Are there good progressive people there? Yes. Are there unreconstructed confederate attitudes there? Yes! Is there a overall difference than other sections? HELL YES!

            by UndercoverRxer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:28:55 PM PDT

            •  I've Lived in the South ALL MY LIFE

              And the only thing worse than a Republican is a Democrat who thinks that the South is full of nothing but stupid people.

              I expect to be treated like shit by a Republican.

              It would be nice if Democrats would refrain from such nonsense.

              by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:36:09 PM PDT

              •  I lived there for 17 years.

                And you are not who I am talking about.
                But can you honestly say that there is no problem down there? Look at the electoral college map, look at the congressional delegations, etc. I have so many less problems with mean ignorant jerks here in the midwest than I did in central florida. We don't have mega churches here and 15 high schools in 1 town due to religious differences and racism. I'll never live down there again.

                by UndercoverRxer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:23:45 PM PDT

                •  Of Course There's A Problem

                  But it's NOT just a southern problem...and that's what this diarist is trying to make it out to be.

                  by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:37:37 PM PDT

        •  So when someone says "Not ALL blacks are...

          ... shiftless and lazy," we can just leave it at that, right?

          No we cannot.

          You've made a completely ridiculous, broad brush slur on an entire region based on some nitwit's church sign.  Then you've done every back flip imaginable ("Hey, I'm Southern, too!") when you got called on it.

          I'm actually a Northerner who has been proud to call ATL my home for 15 years, and as an adopted Southerner who knows the dirty secrets of Midwestern and Northeastern moronitude, which is also quite substantial, I get very protective when people from elsewhere make such blanket proclamations about a region that is no better or worse than any other.

          by pat208 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:59:49 PM PDT

          •  looks like

            you and Fawkes are the only ones torqued off about it right now, but I will be more mindful in the future. Can't please all the Kossacks at once, y'know.

            by TheGreatLeapForward on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:09:46 PM PDT

            •  I'm Not Asking to be Pleased

              Just stop acting like ignorance is a "southern" problem.

              It's not.

              It's a human condition.

              Some people suffer from it & some don't.

              But you help nothing by acting like this Obama/Osama silliness is a "southern" thing.

              by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:27:37 PM PDT

              •  I don't think the diarist posted this

                diary in order to vilify the South.  The church is in South Carolina, so just deal with it.   It would be a travesty if it were in PA or Oregon or Kansas.  It just happens to be in the South.   I live in the South too, and I don't have a problem with this diary.   The truth is the truth.

                by Mad Kossack on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:20:29 PM PDT

                •  And the Diarist went out of his way

                  to make it a "southern" problem from the title of his diary.

                  Also, telling someone to "just deal with it" is rude.

                  The truth is the truth. I know that. There are stupid people everywhere.

                  The stupid people in this church are southern.

                  As long as Democrats keep looking down their noses at the South, then the problem will not improve.

                  I'm happy that Howard Dean & Obama have both looked at the South as a region that needs dialogue & discussion and not more of the same old derision.

                  by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM PDT

                  •  I'm just as Southern as you are and I don't care

                    The fact is, the South needs to get its shit together. That doesn't mean I or anyone else is "looking down" on the South.   The rest of the country needs to get their shit together as well.  

                    This church is in South Carolina, and South Carolina is part of the South.   Should we just ignore stupid, ignorant, dangerous bigoted attitudes like this just because we don't want to offend our fellow Southerners? Because it's embarrassing?  Because there are also stupid people in other parts of the country?  I don't think so.

                    I don't think that Rev. Byrd is interested in being part of Howard Dean's or Barack Obama's dialogue & discussion.

                    I'm not going to ignore the stupidity and ignorance that is in my own backyard.  I'm surrounded by it here in Tennessee.  I don't care who else calls it out either. As far as I am concerned, Neil Young has a more accurate view of the South than did Lynnyrd Skynnyrd, and I've lived in TN, GA, and AL all of my life.  

                    by Mad Kossack on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:21:52 PM PDT

    •  And Geraldine Ferraro is from where?

      Drink shade grown coffee!

      by mad ramblings of a sane woman on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:05:00 PM PDT

  •  RIGHT ON!

    Ignorance in the south is a stupid & insulting diary title.

    If ignorance was just a "southern" problem, then George W. Bush wouldn't be president right now.

    by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:41:41 PM PDT

    •  Kerry got more votes here in GA than in WI.

      by pat208 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:42:59 PM PDT

      •  I'm sure most of Kerry's votes came from the

        African-Americans in the south, however, who hae been rendered impotent in the EC.

        by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:55:59 PM PDT

        •  ...latte-sipping, wind-surfing flip-flopping DFHs

          ...after all, who else in their right mind would have voted for that man?

          by gshevlin on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:13:34 PM PDT

          •  All I know is my latte sipping Vietnam Vet

            father and uncle voted for him. But of course, taking fire in Nam versus taking fire in Texas are two different things.

            Somebody should of asked bush if he knew anyone who'se name was on 'The Wall' come to think of it.

            by kingfishstew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:29:11 PM PDT

      •  Georgia is a bigger state

        Obviously, since Kerry CARRIED Wisconsin and DIDN'T carry Georgia,
        he got a higher PERCENTAGE of the vote in Wisconsin.
        We are often more damaged by what comes out of our OWN mouths
        than by anything others say about us.

        by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:13:14 PM PDT

        •  Gosh, is THAT how that works?

          Rather than offer up a math primer, maybe you should think about what the point is: There are millions of Democrats in the South, and millions of morons in Wisconsin.

          And check out the hot beds of "intelligent design" controversy - Pennsylvania, Kansas, Texas, and Washington State. See any pattern? I didn't think so.

          Regional stereotyping and smug superiority is the sign of minds that need to get out more.

          by pat208 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:19:41 PM PDT

      •  Yeah, but he got more

        WHITE votes in WISCONSIN.

        by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:13:46 PM PDT

  •  THis has EVERYthing to do with the south

    Own your ignorance (and your poverty, ESPECIALLY for white people).

    Good grief.

    by ge0rge on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:11:02 PM PDT

•  and this is a Christian church????

  How many times has Obama stated he is a Christian?  These are the people deciding who will be our next President...I am going to start drinking now and won't stop until tomorrow night...

  uggh...no wonder he has to spend 4 times as much as Clinton

  by tambora on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:40:07 PM PDT

•  If it makes you feel any better

  a lot the types of folks that think this way are habitual non-voters.  I know, I grew up in such an area and many never register for fear of getting called for jury duty.

  by bythesea on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:44:06 PM PDT

  •  now that is a true statement

    our judicial district changed how it picked potential jurors when they had so many repeat jurors because of a shrinking juror pool.

    by jfromga on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:16:28 PM PDT

•  So someone

  asked a question ?
  Are they brothers ?
  Its hardly meaningful .

  by indycam on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:44:53 PM PDT

•  While we're at it...

  "And it's just something to try to stir people's minds. It was never intended to hurt feelings or to offend anybody."

  John McCain worships Satan...in exchange for his undying loyalty to the Dark Lord, he has never had to face a real challenger for his Senate seat, his wife stays young forever and the media ignores every lie he tells...he also eats a fetus every morning for the stem cells, is buggered every night by the corpse of Lee Atwater and can only reach orgasm while watching video of "Bum Fights"...

  Not meant to offend anyone...just something to stir people's minds...

  by Aqualad08 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM PDT

  •  I KNEW Death would never stop

    Lee Atwater!!

    by Fawkes on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:54:20 PM PDT

  •  Remember to give smears in the form of a question

    After all, you don't know any of those things are true, but they could be, right?

    by GreenCA on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:55:28 PM PDT

•  Humm, Byrd: turd? Separated at birth?

  This isn't meant to be disparaging, or anti-religious. I just want to get people thinking.

  by edgeways on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:47:39 PM PDT

•  O/T; Congressman chakah Fattah

  Just stated on HardBall that he would be happy if Obama loses by 5 points or less.

  It looks like thats the number the Obama people think they're gonna hit.

  by notquitedelilah on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:50:15 PM PDT

•  OMG!

  my cursor slipped and I voted wrong in the poll!
  Can it be changed now?

  by katz5 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:50:38 PM PDT

•  Pastor Roger Byrd, Hmmm...

  ...is he a baby-eating Satan-worshipper?

  I'm just asking a question. I don't know. He says he's not. Or, he probably would if I bothered to ask him. I hope he's not. But I don't know.

  I'm not trying to offend anyone, of course. It's just an honest question.

  by GreenCA on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:50:42 PM PDT

•  How many in the congregation

  think that 5 years ago we invaded al-Qaeda and removed Osama bin Laden from power. It seems there are likely quite a few.

  by kitebro on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:52:06 PM PDT

•  I vote to revoke their voter registration cards!

  Okay, okay, just kidding.  Don't get your Dem hats in a tizzy.

  It does scare me that there are an influential number of voters who can be swayed by such stuff.

  It's almost funny... in a northern, elitist, latte-drinking kind of way!

  by ILean Left on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:06:05 PM PDT

•  The funniest part of the quote was

  Pastor Roger Byrd said that he just wanted to get people thinking.

  That's what his congregation thinks thinking is, I wish they'd stop it, and try being brainless zombies for a change, they might get slightly better results.

  by doinaheckuvanutjob on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:48:49 PM PDT